Out of the Father's hand...

John 10:29
"29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

        The word pluck means "to extract, grab, jerk, snatch, or yank". All signify to do it against the will. It doesn't say anything about a person jumping out or walking out, etc. God gives us a choice...
        So we see that no one can take us out of the Father's hand against his will... The word makes it plain, that God doesn't want anyone to perish...

II Peter 3:9
"9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

        But he has also given us a will and he means a will. We can by a decision of our will reject him and his promises or accept him and his promises...
        About 9 of the 13 times "whosoever will" is used in the bible, it is in regards to salvation...
        "Whosoever believeth" is in the bible 7 times and all 7 is to do with salvation...
        Receive, received, receiveth is in the N.T. around 288 times and most are to do with salvation...
        To believe and to receive is a choice of the will...

Josh. 24:14-16
"14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;"

        If sinners who are dead living in sin were allowed to go to heaven then in a super short time, heaven would be hell...
Another way to look at it...
        Sinners in heaven would be miserable, living in a family where they can't party, drink, have all the free sex, lie, cheat, steal, etc... Heaven would be hell to them, hence they must go to their chosen home forever and I guarantee that hell will be hell for them...

        Hell will not be like the pope or Billy Graham is telling us today... Something in your mind or a fictious place. Jesus talked on hell quite a bit... Let's look at his words...

Luke 16:20-31
"20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
"21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
"22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
"23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
"24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
"25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
"26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
"27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
"28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
"29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
"30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
"31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

So let's deal with...


Some people who disagree with my position on "the once saved, always saved" doctrine believe me to be closed minded, heretical BUT is that the case or is it the other way around or could it be that one needs to study the issue more? Maybe it is just a misunderstanding, confusion on the part of one, or even closed mindedness? I will now present my case with the word of God. The confusion that exists among believers is they WILL NOT study for themselves, they tend to take another manís word for it instead of finding out what God has to say about the issue. That is sad!
Many times we build up a straw man argument and then tear it down to show how right we are but most of those times we only deal with scriptures that we know and the answers that we know. We wonít seem to touch the other scriptures that blows our arguments apart. There are those who are born-again, washed in the blood of the lamb that get extremely upset if you would dare tell them that a person can reject, deny Jesus Christ after he has received him. We can go back and forth saying, I donít agree, you are wrong, etc. but it doesnít get us anywhere. The word will help us to see, to understand.

Is there going to be a "falling away" or is there a "falling from grace"? The word tells me that there is so I choose to believe Godís word rather than manís word.

II Thess. 2:3
"3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Gal. 5:4
"4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
        The straw man argument used here is:
"6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6)

        So the argument goes to show that you are either saved by works or by grace not by both. Since a true Christian knows that works cannot save a person then we would readily agree that it is by grace. This is true but the verse above shows that those who have "fallen from grace" are those who now think that they will stay saved by the works of the law. A man is entirely saved by the finished work of Christ or he is not saved. So if he were truly saved and then later adds the works of the law to make himself a little more secure then he has fallen from grace.
        Another argument that is brought out is "cheap grace", this argument makes those who believe that a person can turn his back on God after he has been saved as accusing those who believe in eternal security are believing in cheap grace. For God to save me by his grace isnít cheap anyway you look at it. It cost him plenty, the death of his only begotten Son. For a person to believe or preach anything but a free salvation isnít preaching a biblical salvation. Since most of the arguments against forfeiting your salvation are based on works and I donít disagree with most of them then I will go directly to the root of the problem and that is unbelief.

        By reading Heb. 10:14,
"14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

         I see that he (Jesus/God) has perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Sanctified is being set apart, holy, consecrated unto God. Jesus said, "Sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth." (John 17:17)

        God is infinite but he gives man a finite faith. "..the measure of faith." (Rom. 12:3) The measure of faith is just that, a certain amount of faith that God gives each individual.
        And since "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God", (Rom. 10:17) we grow in the faith walk as we apply the word of God to our lives.
        Remember the Jews were broken off because of unbelief and we stand by faith. If the Jews can be broken off because of unbelief, we can be broken off too. The Jews were the natural branches and we were grafted in.

Romans 11:20-23 says,
"20. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
"21. For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
"22. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
"23. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again."
        I received Jesus though faith in his finished work on the cross (Eph. 2:8,9). I am commanded to walk in him in the same way that I received him (through faith).
Col. 2:6,7
"6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
"7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving."
        God isn't asking us, he is telling us...

Gal. 3:11, "...the just shall live by faith."
        What if they don't or are not living by faith?

Hebrews 10:38 says,
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."
        Do you want to live in heaven where God has no pleasure in you???

Romans 1:17
"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." (Bolded emphasis mine).
        How are they going to live??? Faith pleases God and without faith, you cannot please God...(CK. Heb. 11:6)
Rev 3:14-22
"14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."
        I have heard that this is not talking about hell nevertheless I donít want to be spued to the other side of heaven by Jesus. We are living in the Laodicean Church Age, the lukewarm church is the pre-dominate church of this age... I will be talking about hell indepth on this page soon. Check out my articles to the Jehovah's Witnesses on hell.

In Acts 14:22, Paul exhorts them to continue in the faith.
        What if they donít?
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." -Acts 14:22

Col. 1:21-23
"21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"
        Jesus desires to present us- holy, unblamable, and unreprovable in his sight IF we continue in the faith. What if we donít continue in the faith?

        Why would Paul say,
"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:" -II Tim 4:7
        If the word taught all Christians keep the faith, no matter what, then why did Paul say I have kept the faith if that is an absolute, a sure thing? To keep the faith, that is. If he couldnít lose, throw it away or whatever else then why is he talking about himself keeping the faith.

I John 1:9
"9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
        What if we donít confess our sins?

1 Tim 6:6-19 says,
"6. But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9. But they that WILL be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
13. I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
14. That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15. Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16. Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
17. Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18. That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19. Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life."
        Let's walk in the Spirit of God so then we are laying hold on eternal life...

Abrahamís faith in God was counted for righteousness just as David said in Rom. 4:7.
Romans 4:5-9
"5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness."
        As we enter into the faith, God imputes rigtheousness to us.

Rom. 14:23 shows that "...whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
II Cor. 1:24 says, "...by faith ye stand." (Cf.) Heb. 11:6
Gal. 5:5 says, "For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."
        We stand by faith, we walk by faith, we overcome by faith...

I Peter 1:3-5-9
"3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4. To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5. Who are kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH UNTO SALVATION ready to be revealed in the last time.
6. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8. Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."
        Receiving what??? The end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls...

"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." (Gal. 5:6)
        Faith is what avails (benefits, profits or works) through love.

I Tim. 4:1
"1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"
        Those who listen to the wrong voices.

I Tim. 5:8
"8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
        Those who won't or don't provide for their own household.

I Tim. 5:11,12
"11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
"12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith."
        Those who live in pleasure against Christ.

I Tim. 6:10
"10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."         erred-- to be wrong, be mistaken or incorrect, blunder, to do wrong, sin; to go wrong, miss. borrowed from the Latin, meaning to wander. syn. trepass         The love of money caused some to turn from the faith.         We need to fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life. (Cf. I Tim. 6:12 was shared earlier.) Hebrews 3:12- An evil heart of unbelief.
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."

Hebrews 12:25 deals with turning away from the holy one who speaks from heaven.
"See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven;" (Hebrews 12:25 )


In I Timothy 4:1 we read again,
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"
        To depart from the faith shows an apostasy, believers leaving the faith that they came into at the time of their born again experience.

II Peter 2:20-22
"20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
"21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
"22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
        Some say that this is talking about those who knew the way of righteousness and turned from it before they were saved, it is better that they never knew the way... But is it saying that? Do you really think that a person can escape the pollutions of the world through a head knowledge of Jesus Christ??? What or Who is the way of righteousness??? Jesus is! Look at John 14:6.

Also in II Timothy 2:12 which says,
"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:"         The bible shows me in Psa.14:1, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."         We can deny the Lord with our heart (life) and still confess him with our lips. The fool might not have said with his mouth that there is no God but with his life he was and is continually saying it to an unbelieving world.

Heb. 6:4-6
"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
"5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
"6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
        I see a few things here... First they were enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted of the good word of God and the powers of the world to come... If they shall fall away...

Heb. 10:26-29
"26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
"27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
"28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
"29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
        This has to be a person who has denounced Christ, made little of his sacrifice, and completely turned his back on the Son of God...

Okay, let's back track some...
Heb. 10:15-26
"15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
"16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
"17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
"18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
"19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
"20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
"21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
"22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
"23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
"24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
"25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
"26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
        In verses 24,25; we see the church...the body of Christ...

        Check out the "church" and the "pure water" by tying in Eph. 5:24-27
"24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
"25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
"26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
"27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Reading Hebrews 11:6,
"6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
        So Christians can argue about losing or not losing their salvation if that is what they want to do but the important thing for every Christian is to be walking in the life of God continually . I donít want to get spewed out of Jesusí mouth, nor do I want to deny him or love money more than I love him, or be caught not fighting the good fight of faith, or living in pleasure against Christ. and so many other things. I am born of his Spirit so I desire to please him. He made me a new creature and he works in me and that is some good news. If a Christian is living for Jesus and not playing with the world why would he worry about whether others think he could lose his salvation or not? It wouldnít make any difference what others thought, you knowthat you are going to be with him. His Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are a child of the most high God.

        As we saw in Colossians that we are to walk in the same way that we received the Lord Jesus Christ and that is in faith. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13)
"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

        Just remember the Biblical Jesus is the one who saves not some make- believe Jesus. Not the Mormon Jesus who is the brother of Satan, or the Roman Catholic Jesus who is the wafer and the wine at their Eucharist (just the wafer today) or the Jehovah's Witness's Jesus who was Michael the archangel or any other cult's Jesus but the real one and he saves. Come to him today!

        The Father loves us and he will come looking for us, calling us to himself or BACK to himself, whichever the case might be...
Matt. 18:12-14
"12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."
Luke 15:4-7
"4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

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